Do You Like the Fiscal Cliff Deal?
The agreement reached between the White House and Congress doesn't address spending cuts and leaves another potential debt limit showdown on the table. It also increases taxes on income over $400,000. Is this a deal that works for you?
After a marathon holiday negotiation session, after grumbling by liberal senators and after a near-revolt by conservative representatives, the fiscal cliff deal was approved by the House of Representatives late Tuesday night.
The bargain will increase taxes on income above $450,000 for families, increase capital gains taxes, permanently fix the alternative minimum tax, change the estate tax and provide some changes in deductions. It also will extend unemployment benefits, earned income tax credits and other tax breaks for the working class. The Washington Post has a cheat sheet with all of the details.
Middle class taxpayers will still see a smaller paycheck in 2013; The payroll tax cut was not preserved as part of the fiscal cliff deal. That tax specifically pays into social security. If you make $50,000 a year, the payroll tax increase will cost you about $1,000. That has some liberal economists upset with the deal.
What do you think? Did the president give away the store by moving the top bracket tax increase from $250,000 to $450,000? Did House Republicans lose out by pushing spending cuts down the road by two months? Or is the sort of compromise you were waiting for? Tell us your thoughts in the comments section below.
One Man Wolf Pack
12:06 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Where was the balanced approach Mr President?
How come this is all taxes and NO CUTS?
How come this adds 4 trillion to our debt?
Fair and balanced means doing exactly what the president says, it does not mean it will be fair or balanced.
Richard C Barnes
3:20 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Most Americans will see tax increases as a result of this:
http://news.yahoo.com/despite-deal-taxes-rise-most-americans-080605126--finance.html
Of course the liberals in Hollywood don't have to pay more:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/01/01/hollywood-loophole-fiscal-cliff
Mike Healey
3:28 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
The President got his tax increase for those making 450k+ and Republicans got their tax increase on the rest of us. Balanced.
Reality Geezer
12:32 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
I have not seen a comprehensive report anywhere on exactly what congress voted for or against. Even if I did, as an ordinary taxpayer, I would still not know the effects of these complex decisions. That is for the President and his experts to determine......
One Man Wolf Pack
12:46 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
take a look here Geezer......the link is from the article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/31/your-fiscal-cliff-deal-cheat-sheet/
Reality Geezer
3:08 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
CW--looks like an opinion list to me--no facts there.........................
One Man Wolf Pack
3:15 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Well the senate got the bill three minutes before voting on it........so I am not sure if anyone really knows whats in it for sure......which I think is the point. Negotiate behind closed doors so no one knows anything and then scare everyone into a vote with no time to think it through. Both side operate this way. Wanna bet there is pork in the bill? Like some politicians pet project for a special interest?
Reality Geezer
4:05 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
CW--got my advice about the "cliff" from Fidelity. Still there are details which none of us know about--they make deals for votes--so who knows.
https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/investing-ideas/fiscal-cliff-deal
Jim U Lacrum
12:50 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
They bungled and screwed about for months, and then used the scare tactic of a "fiscal cliff" as a smokescreen to steal more money from us. So, no, I can't say that I really like it. It's the same business as usual for our do-nothing-good legislature.
How about taking a close look at the money-hemorrhaging agencies and programs that are really sinking the country financially? Is that too much reality for you, supposed representatives of the people? You can't weasel your way out of our looming financial insolvency by adjusting a couple figures here and there.
Tax cuts are not the problem. Runaway spending of money that doesn't exist on things that aren't necessary is the problem. Get your house in order.
Concord Clairvoyant
12:57 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
The President protected Medicare & Social Security, and prevented major tax increases for the middle class. It's hard to see this as anything but a positive.
One Man Wolf Pack
1:00 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
4 trillion added to the debt as a result of this, that puts this administration on track to double the debt since taking charge; how is that positive?
Is generational theft a good thing?
essay
1:38 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Deficits don't matter.
Dick Cheney was right, and so was Ronald Reagan. Why do contemporary Republicans refuse to acknowledge this basic economic fact? Cutting our deficit is not worth destroying our economy.
http://www.salon.com/2009/03/27/deficits/
Proud Conservative
1:38 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
The president did nothing but pave the way for more spending and more entitlements. He did absolutely nothing to benefit the country. He's a socialist who's goal is to destroy capitalism in the United States and replace it with socialism.
essay
1:52 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
@proud conservative: Please do not hesitate to make similar statements to this: "He's a socialist who's goal is to destroy capitalism in the United States and replace it with socialism."
Aside from the grammar mistake (who's/whose), it is the clearest reason most rational Americans have rejected "proud conservatism" and voted for Comrade Obama. Seriously, though, if you believe that it is his intention to destroy capitalism, he's certainly been doing a lousy job of it, considering how our economy has continued to grow throughout his tenure as president.
One Man Wolf Pack
1:56 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
@Essay, Read your article, Cheney was referring to deficit spending affecting the election cycle. Furthermore during Reagan there was very little debt relative to GDP, and he had no idea where we would be at today. As your article from 2009 points out deficit spending does not matter when you have very little debt , but that is not the case now; we have massive debt, especially when considered relative to the time period examples put forward by you and the article.
If you honestly think that spending your childeren's, and their childeren's, money without end does not matter and at no time will we have to pay up then by all means carry on. But if you even remotely think that at some point there is an end to how much can be spent without consequences then please look into it further. This is not about Republicans, who in fact are hypocritically bad at spending, and Democrats who just plain spend without abandon; this is about the future of the American dollar, and its place in the global economy and the quality of life that those positions bring the citizenry and future generations.
Jim U Lacrum
1:09 pm on Saturday, January 5, 2013
essay: Deficits and the resulting snowballing debt are of great consequence. Stop relying on quotes and partisan nonsense, and think about it. Every dollar we overspend is a new dollar in debt, on which we will be stuck paying interest. Every trillion dollars in debt means billions more dollars in interest payments, resulting in the need for deeper deficits the next time around to maintain even the same level of spending, which causes the debt to grow, requiring greater interest payments, and so on.
Our economy is being destroyed by debt and by the inflationary policies that allow debt to accumulate so quickly. Our dollar, once so valuable that $50 was denominated as about an ounce of gold instead of a scrap of paper, is worth next to nothing now. We have so much debt that hundreds of billions of dollars are sucked out of the economy to pay the interest on it. And still, the overspending continues, and mostly for useless and counterproductive garbage like police-state measures, wars of aggression, and sweetheart deals for politically connected corporations.
essay
1:19 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Call me crazy, but someone making more than $200,000 a year is hardly "middle class".
One Man Wolf Pack
1:40 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
What if that person is a sole propietor whos taxes from the business flow directly onto thier individual tax return and business expenses eat up more than half of that income already? That puts actual income closer to 100K, just as an example. The point being that income (gross) and take home (net) are different and in fact someone with income well over even 1 million may in effect have a take home pay of much more modest amounts. So yes someone with $200,000 may actually be "middle class" given how you are thinking about income.
essay
1:48 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
@Charlie W: not sure if you're aware of this or not, but this is a quote directly from the IRS website: "Business expenses are the cost of carrying on a trade or business. These expenses are usually deductible if the business is operated to make a profit."
So, actually, no, that does not put their "actual income closer to 100k".
The point being that complaining that raising taxes on those making above $200,000 may harm small business owners is either ignorant or deceitful. You may continue to make that argument, but, now that you are informed on this very basic tax concept, you would have to be considered deceitful.
See the following link for more information: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Deducting-Business-Expenses
One Man Wolf Pack
2:30 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
So cost of living, as just one example, is deductible huh Essay?
That mean that people in NY City and podunk anywhere USA have the same expenses?
Rather deceitful of you to suggest otherwise.............
steve forte
2:58 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Ok , your crazy. Plenty of people make that kind of money and live a middleclass life.
essay
10:57 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
@Charlie W: I'm not sure if you understand the idea of "Cost of Living". Of course, it costs more to live in NYC than Lebanon, just as it costs more to live in Hanover than Lebanon. This has nothing to do with the cost of carrying on a business.
The fact is, if you are a business owner and your income is greater than $200,000, you may "live" a "middleclass life", as Steve Forte wrote, but you are earning more than the 95% of your fellow Americans. That is decidely NOT "middleclass".
And, again, the income we are talking about is the net income from your business, not the gross income. This means that if you have hired 2 people and pay them each $50k, and the gross income from your business is $250k, your income is not above $200k. I doubt that you, Charlie, really cannot understand this, as your response to the Cheney deficit column was reasoned and intelligent.
Proud Conservative
1:36 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
You won't have to open your wallets because the money will never even get there......................................
Households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will face an average tax increase of $579 in 2013, according to the Tax Policy Center's analysis. Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will face an average tax increase of $822.
In addition, the measure passed yesterday will add 4 trillion to the national debt. Once again, you gullible Obama supporters have been hoodwinked by the Obama Smoke & Mirrors Show.
essay
1:42 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
The payroll tax increase of between $579 and $822 for households with incomes between $40,000 and $75,000 is a small price to pay to keep our economy growing and our country strong. Unless you don't really "believe in America".
Joe
1:59 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
@essay - What will keep our economy growing and our country strong is keeping our money in our own pockets and spending it locally as we see fit. Sending our money to what has positioned itself as the most fiscally irresponsible organization on the face of the earth is not the recipe for growth. Big government is a "liability" it is NOT an "asset". It is time to stop feeding the pig!
Proud Conservative
8:14 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Essay - you're so blinded by the Obama Smoke & Mirrors Show that there is no sense even talking with you. If Obama shot the Pope in Times Square, on New Year's Eve, in front of a million onlookers and a live TV audience of millions, you'd deny it. Your reality if fictional.
Jim U Lacrum
1:01 pm on Saturday, January 5, 2013
essay: A government stealing money from the people—particularly from working people who need the money and would spend it if it were not taken from them—does not "keep our economy growing and our country strong." It makes the majority of our people poorer and gives more funding to a run-amok state that starts unnecessary wars, violates the rights of everyone (except its campaign donors), and now even tortures and assassinates people.
Furthermore, at this point, tax increases are only serving as the groundwork for future debt increases, which will in turn create a need for future tax increases. It's a downward spiral that has been destroying the value of our currency and our public solvency for decades, and it's worse now than ever.
Ed Boerner
2:18 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Such a deal. The president got 95% of what he wanted. You know, Romney was right, the 47% do rule. They are hard core union, hard SSDI, you will never claw the cradle to grave mentality from a percentage that is growing everyday. God help us. See ya Comrades!
David Campbell
2:54 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/fiscal-cliff-deal-economy_n_2396189.html?1357145775&icid=maing-grid7|maing5|dl2|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D251890
Silly sheeple following a butcher to their doom
Mike black
4:16 pm on Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Joe Biden got his raise ! He's probably laughing !
howsyourbooks
8:14 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
The blame falls on small towns waste of money..for example while visiting the goffstown library I noticed staff did nothing more than gossip and surf the internet for personal use..but then I was in disgust to see a flyer on requesting federal grants.. you must be joking
steve forte
8:40 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Dont feel bad , here in Amherst we spend $850,000 for the librarys annual budget. Not much thou when one considers we spend $3000 more a yr to teach a 3rd grader then it costs to send a student to UNH for the yr.
sara williams
9:38 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
I agree with a waste of money.I'm very familiar with that location and its books should be opened before any further grants be received.
steve forte
11:16 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013
Someone making $200k filing single with $10000 in prop taxes and $10k in state income tax would owe the feds $42,797 then add the $20 k for prop and state income taxes ( yes I know NH dosnt have a state income tax but many states do)
That $200k just dropped to $138k pretty damn quick
Rep Al Baldasaro
10:23 am on Friday, January 4, 2013
Thank You Congressman Guinta for standing up to the tax and spenders!!!
http://www.wmur.com/news/money/CBO-Fiscal-cliff-deal-adds-4-trillion-to-deficits/-/9857662/17977126/-/129jgrd/-/index.html?absolute=true